Flu jabs UK

Lucy Knight · #1 3rd September 2017, 13:31

Anyone any knowledge in the area of flu vaccinations.

This year seems Boots and some other pharmacies are offering 4 strain quad vaccines as well as three strain vaccines (NHS one) or they are if you have to pay. By that I mean not 65 by March 2018.

I also read on internet that the 3 strain one is not very effective in over 65s. I'm in my sixties but not eligible yet. For past 5 years I have paid to have one (three strain) at various pharmacies. Some national pharmacies are only offering 3 strain or charging excessive amount for 4 strain quad vaccine. Boots whose standard price is a few pounds extra from the £9 other pharmacies offer will give you the quad vaccine for their same standard price £12.99 starting 18th Sept according to the one I rang up. The one they give to kids as nasal spray which is live attenuated vacine has four strains on it.

Quite a bit on internet and a practice nurse makes her comment on Mums net regarding the choices I read. Seems to be other factors that decide some practices are sticking with previous suppliers supplying 3 strain.

From what i have read on the internet, it appears that this is first year gp practices have had option to supply quad vaccine as NHS vaccination but costs more and the individual practices make the decision. I believe thr quad vaccine was offered previous years at some private travel clinics and known as gold star one.

Sounds on internet that Aussi offers 4 strain one.

Ron Stringer · #2 3rd September 2017, 14:02

Although over-65 and therefore eligible for the free NHS service, I have never had a 'flu jab (and have never had 'flu).

My wife, a former nurse, midwife and health visitor, has unlimited faith in the powers of the health profession and availed herself each Autumn. She has respiratory problems and the consultant that she was seeing insisted that she should not miss out on the vaccine.

About 6 or 7 years ago, early in December, she had a severe bout of flu', in spite of having had the jab some weeks previously and was still recovering at Christmas time. Of course I was my usual smug self and did not hesitate to point out that I was not affected by the bug.

The following year she again contracted 'flu despite having had the jab and again she was laid up over Christmas. I teased her about trying to avoid all the extra work involved in preparing for the festive season - it was not appreciated. Not was my continued smugness.

The next year she was very ill with 'flu during much of December and this progressed into bronchitis that did not clear up until February. At times we were really concerned that she was not going to make it.

At that point she decided that she would give the vaccine a miss the following Autumn. That year she did not get the 'flu nor even a winter cold, although all around her fell victim to the 'common cold' and worse (not me of course). So she gave the vaccine a miss, despite letters from her GP urging her to come to the surgery for the injection. Another year without the 'flu followed.

And so it has gone on ever since.

We may be gambling with her health (or her life) but her experience with the 'flu jab has not been good. Paraphrasing James Bond, once is an incident, twice may be an accident but three times is definitely enemy action.

By the way, last October when she saw the respiratory consultant he asked her if she had been for her 'flu jab and she said that she was not taking it. When asked why, she told him the above story. After some thought he said, "Do you know, I have the jab every year and I always seem to get a cold or other chest infection soon afterwards. I think I may give it a miss this year and see what happens."

If he did, and if he survived the experiment, we will see him next month.

Farmer John · #3 3rd September 2017, 17:02

My wife has had it done for the last few years and I haven't. We both have remained well.

Don't let any horrible young people anywhere near you, they carry bugs. When I worked in teaching at a College, a new intake of students from all over the country always brought strains of something we had not encountered, October onwards a new bug until it all settled down and we all had had each others diseases. (non sexually transmitted, as a general thing ;>} )

Tmac1720 · #4 3rd September 2017, 18:35

Had the flu jab every year since it was available with no adverse reaction, well except the aforementioned chest infections and sniffles. GP insisted as I have Asthma it should not be avoided as all sorts of dire consequences may befall me. So last year as usual I had the jab, a week later I was covered in red itchy spots and never felt as sick in my life. After much ummimg and ahhing the consensus was it was a reaction to the flu jab. Being advised "I've never seen a reaction like that before" several times by various "experts" didn't help my mood one little bit. It took almost three months for my skin to return to normal and the itch abate. This year they know what they can do with their flu jab

BobClay · #5 3rd September 2017, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmer John

My wife has had it done for the last few years and I haven't. We both have remained well.

Don't let any horrible young people anywhere near you, they carry bugs. When I worked in teaching at a College, a new intake of students from all over the country always brought strains of something we had not encountered, October onwards a new bug until it all settled down and we all had had each others diseases. (non sexually transmitted, as a general thing ;>} )

I've never had a flu jab either. I had the flu as a kid and got laid up for month, and once more in the 60's but never since.

With regard to colds, when I started working in a school my boss told me I'd have two years of misery, cold after cold in a full on train. Then I'd never have a cold again. I was deeply sceptical of this, but the fact is ... it was true.

Varley · #6 4th September 2017, 10:15

As well as steering clear of those horrid pustulous creatures, each surrounded by an unhygienic miasma of virus bearing snot and leaving a trail of bacterially active detritus - each an untasked vector of germ warfare - I also have a 'flu jab as soon as it is 'up'.

Didn't save me last winter from a fevered ghastliness lasting from mid February well into March and which has left me with impaired sense of smell - ruining my enjoyment of much drink (and I did very much like much drink).

But look on it another way what might I have been like had I not had the jab?

pompeyfan · #7 4th September 2017, 11:56

I always recommend having the flu jab unless there are known clinical reasons not having it. My recommendations are based entirely on my former job seeing literally hundreds of people die every year having had the flu or indeed a heavy cold. I cannot emphasize enough how dangerous the flu is. It was not the flu itself that killed people but complications such as pneumonia. For example, time and time again we would write Bronchopneumonia as the cause of death due to influenza.

People with a wide range of medical conditions from respiratory problems, heart or many other diseases should have the jab as well as people over 65. The problem with flu is that it weakens the immune system. Even people not in the at risk group could be affected with a secondary condition that actually kills them. We saw a lot of younger people die for that very reason, which is why I recommend the jab for any age group.

Many of those who came our way would have survived had they been treated sooner. The problem was, and still is, the fact that the flu, like a cold, is a virus. Antibiotics are of no use, but when the virus changes to bacteria they can be used. But my job found that there was a very fine line, which many people missed including nursing homes and doctors as well as people at home. By the time antibiotics were given, it was too late. It was so frustrating because we knew the person could have survived had they been treated with antibiotics sooner.

Please speak to your doctor because he or she should know if you are in a high risk group or could be when the immune system is shot to pieces. We saw that all the time too. Therefore, from a general point of view, I would recommend everybody has it because despite what some may say, the flu jab cannot give you flu because the vaccine does not contain live viruses. The vaccine may cause problems for a few days from a sore arm to aching muscles, but everybody is different, which is why each individual should get medical advice. Some people may already have the flu or a cold before having the jab because incubation time is around 1 to 4 days. Also of course, a virus may appear not included in the annual vaccine. In Feburary, the World Health Organization assesses the strains of virus most likely in the northern hemisphere the following winter. Production of the vaccine is March each year, so time for a new strain to surface before vaccination takes place from September onwards.

Lucy Knight · #8 5th January 2018, 18:36

According to some media articles the three strain flu vaccine many have been given doesn't protect against one of the flu viruses that is likely this year, while the four strain vaccine sone people were offered does. I found out about the three and four strain (new in UK) versions at the beginning of the vaccination season last Sept, but many people don't have a clue which one they have received or that there were two versions. There is apparently more profit in the three strain one for surgeries and Pharmacies apparently. Also many pharmacies (not Boots who were offering 4 strain for £12.99p) were only offering the 3 strain one. This included the supermarket pharmacies offering it for £8 etc. One can't have two jabs so if people catch the version they would have been protected against if they had had the 4 strain vaccine they might not be too happy with their GP surgeries and pharmacies for not telling them.

erimus · #9 5th January 2018, 19:08

Twenty years ago we had flu jabs...and both of us caught flu,me for about 6 weeks.

I rejected the several offers from the surgery for my free injections....until this last month when he advised that because of some other problems it would be of benefit to have another,based on the fact that the old vaccine was a 'live' one but not the present version.
So SWMBO and I had the new jab...me,just some minor irritation, my wife had immediate reaction with hard lump on arm which virtually glowed with heat. She spend two days in severe pain and her arthritis was just awful...and her teeth ached.. I rang the surgery after two days and they had her in for an ECG and advised that she didn't have an injection next year as she could have been in a cardiac arrest situation!..............we have other friends that have had these injections without any reaction at all.

geofff

Dartskipper · #10 5th January 2018, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy Knight

According to some media articles the three strain flu vaccine many have been given doesn't protect against one of the flu viruses that is likely this year, while the four strain vaccine sone people were offered does. I found out about the three and four strain (new in UK) versions at the beginning of the vaccination season last Sept, but many people don't have a clue which one they have received or that there were two versions. There is apparently more profit in the three strain one for surgeries and Pharmacies apparently. Also many pharmacies (not Boots who were offering 4 strain for £12.99p) were only offering the 3 strain one. This included the supermarket pharmacies offering it for £8 etc. One can't have two jabs so if people catch the version they would have been protected against if they had had the 4 strain vaccine they might not be too happy with their GP surgeries and pharmacies for not telling them.

I think the key word in this post, Lucy, is "profit."

Regards.

pompeyfan · #11 6th January 2018, 09:09

I don't think it is about profit, but production timing of making the vaccine.

In Feburary, the World Health Organization assesses the strains of virus most likely in the northern hemisphere the following winter. Production of the vaccine is March each year, so time for a new strain to surface before vaccination takes place from September onwards.

I would not accuse Pharmacies of making a profit over a fourth strain but praise them. You cannot put a price on life. The flu is a killer as I tried to explain in post #7.

Lucy Knight · #12 6th January 2018, 15:56

Unlike David / Pompeyfan I have never worked or trained in the NHS, healrh care or health related areas.

There has been quite a bit on the media, on internet though which maybe/may not be true relating to trivalent flu jab vaccinations and quadvalent jabs being offered by some some NHS and some pharmacies this year for first time. The kid's nasal spray ones are quadvalent they state.

Before the vaccination season started there were internet articles saying some surgeries let the practice nurses decided which vaccination the GP's surgeries were ordering.

Here is a label of a recent article.

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/05/flu-ja...eveal-7205455/

pompeyfan · #13 6th January 2018, 19:38

Lucy

Interesting article, but there have never been 100% gurantee that the flu strains identified by the World Health Organisation every February, with the vaccine made in March will still be the same strains by September.. It is too long in my opinion, and can lead to much confusion and even mistrust as the thread seems to be turning into.

Always seek advice from your doctors surgery or even pharmacists. Don’t be put off by cost. As I have stated before, the flu is by far the biggest annual killer that I dealt with. personally dealing with hundreds every winter. One Christmas, I had a 100 patients in my place all dying of flu related conditions. This was before flu vaccines, so is hopefullly less these days providing they have the jab. Those who say they have never had the flu or would never have the jab, clearly have never see what I did.

I have only had the flu once during a time when I was fit, but it hit me for six, never been so ill. Some people say they struggle to work with the flu, but all they would have is a nasty cold. With the flu, you would struggle to get out of bed, let alone go to work.

The problem is that the imuune system is shot to pieces by the flu. That is why at risk groups are urged to have the jab, over 65s, those with heart conditions, respiratory problems and many other conditions. There is a full list on line. Or ask at your surgery or pharmacist. The vaccine*stimulates your body's immune system to make antibodies to attack the virus.

I have a bad cold at present, feeling terrible for days non stop coughing, but it is not the flu. Having said that, I have a heart problems, so need to keep an eye on it as do all those with underlying health conditions.

Lucy Knight · #14 6th January 2018, 20:08

According to the article, label below, the current flu jabs aren't much use for the elderly. Other articles state over the magical age of 65. This coming Autumn a new flu vaccination will be available for over 75s not over 65s. Supposed to have additives in it which make the vaccination more efficient for those with lower immune systems. It is available now in some other European countries, but not Gt Britain this year.

NHS struggles to cope as flu takes over GPs hospitals and NHS helpline
http://dailym.ai/2qq8neL via http://dailym.ai/android

erimus · #15 6th January 2018, 20:31

Lucy..I would not rate the Daily Mail as the foremost periodical in medical matters......actually in the North East flu isn't the main stopper but Norovirus our old cruising friend.

geoff

Lucy Knight · #16 6th January 2018, 20:59

Erimus, I agree with you re opinion of DM articles providing the same facts aren't repeated in other daily comics. The comments after the Mail on line articles can sometimes be very entertaining though.

However in this case the same info about effects of the flu on NHS seems to be in all the old broadsheet newspaper articles as well. Here is a Daily Telegraph article.
basically stating similar. If the flu jabs were so effective would this be happening in the hospitals?

NHS hospitals ordered to cancel all routine operations in January as flu spike and bed shortages lead to A&E crisis

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018...d=tmg_share_em

erimus · #17 7th January 2018, 11:34

...........and how many of the people in the flu spike have had injections Lucy??

geoff

Lucy Knight · #18 7th January 2018, 15:07

Probably a lot who cause the flu spike haven't had vaccinations. One group that falls way short if targets is NHS staff having them. This has been in plenty of differenr media arricles and sratistics on internet sites. Also the target percentages and percentages achieved for NHS, staff, over 65s and patient with medical conditions that are advised to have one are easily found on line.
This year states many G.P. not having one. a few years ago a formidable lady in her mid seventies with diabetes at thr duabetes nurserun clinic turnrd the tables on the general purpose practice nurse giving her ear ache about not having one. She kept going at her about wherher she had had a flu jab too, until the stroppy diabetic/practice nurse who was bossing her admitted she didn't have flu vaccinations because she never got flu. "Nor do I" was this ladies reply and not only refused to have one on that basis. She then told anyone who would listen that the practice nurse didn't have a flu vaccination so she wasn't having one either.

NHS trusts beg doctors and nurses to have flu jabs http://dailym.ai/2F86w1D via http://dailym.ai/android

Farmer John · #19 7th January 2018, 16:40

I am having one tomorrow, so if it goes quiet at this end it will show that sanity has returned

Lucy Knight · #20 7th January 2018, 19:02

I found this comment written by rtrd MN Capt MN who lives in UK on another site re his and his wife's experience of being very ill flu vaccinations in 2006.

What he subsequently found out is concerning

Part of post below
______________
in 2006 the US government condemned one lot of Flu vaccines, my son and daughter in law were working at the Scripps Medical Institute over there at the time.
So the US Gov. sold it all to the British Gov. cheap, and made a new batch for the US. and we got the bad one. We were in bed for two weeks very very ill.
__________________

I believe the target figure for NHS staff having the flu vaccinations is 75 percent. The actual figure re take up is far below that.

The Telegraph also had an article recently about NHS staff not taking up the flu vaccinations.

Doctors and nurses urged to get flu jab amid warnings that a French epidemic could spread to Britain

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018...ench-epidemic/

Lucy Knight · #21 8th January 2018, 11:05

Today's news. Could all NHS staff be forced to have the flu jab?

http://dailym.ai/2qBTp5D via http://dailym.ai/android

This NHS chief is suggesting it for next year. Since the bad flu epidemics are once in blue moon what about this year. Article say it breaches human rights. What about patient's human rights when they are forced to have them and other treatment. eg residential homes by GP's nurses and various hospital wards. Not to mention bullying by G.P.'s surgeries when NHS staff who don't decide they warrant being vaccinated.

erimus · #22 8th January 2018, 13:09

Have you had yours yet Lucy?

geoff

lakercapt · #23 8th January 2018, 17:05

Here in Ontario all can get the shot free of charge and it is advised for these over 65 and infants. We are first in line should there be a shortage as happened a few years ago. I have been receiving them for years now and have not had the Flu but did fall to pneumonia but that was a diffeant virus.

Farmer John · #24 8th January 2018, 18:50

Went to get mine today, they had messed up the appointment, their stocks right now are low, they will only be ordering limited amounts as the "season" finishes in March. I don't think I will bother. Blood Pressure, fine, weight stable, height same as last time. I could have told them that.

Red-17 · #25 10th January 2018, 23:07

I stopped having Flu jabs quite some years ago and because I worked for the Health Department I had to sign a disclaimer that it was my decision not to have the jabs. I never had the flu but those that I worked with and who had the shots fell like flies and continued feeling bad for sometime. I saw too many people I knew over the years who religiously had their shots and who never seemed to be without the flu or a bad cold.

Many of these were elderly people, including my own mother. She decided, much to the horror of her GP that she would not have another flu shot. At this stage she was in her late seventies. She didn't get the flu, as was predicted by her GP, but the other thing that happened was that her general cold like symptoms that she had, and had suffered with for many years, abated.

I too have asthma and my own GP is not happy that I refuse to have the annual vaccination but I believe that it is my choice as to what I let others put into my body.