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An incident back in '72 or '73

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Old 7th September 2020, 06:25
Yachtsman Australia Yachtsman is offline
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An incident back in '72 or '73

I flew to the Solomons to bring a trawler style vessel back to Cairns. We stopped briefly at Samarai (I think) because of engine trouble. While there I got to talking to an engineer off, probably, a Banks Line ship. As I recall it he told me they were trying to get a cylinder liner out and it was stuck. They had a crane pulling it up and a couple of jacks pushing. Is this a feasable story or have I got it all wrong? We left the next day so I have no idea of the outcome. Could the ship get home with one cylinder completely out of action?

Bob H
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Old 7th September 2020, 07:05
Engine Serang Northern Ireland Engine Serang is offline
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Originally Posted by Yachtsman View Post
I flew to the Solomons to bring a trawler style vessel back to Cairns. We stopped briefly at Samarai (I think) because of engine trouble. While there I got to talking to an engineer off, probably, a Banks Line ship. As I recall it he told me they were trying to get a cylinder liner out and it was stuck. They had a crane pulling it up and a couple of jacks pushing. Is this a feasable story or have I got it all wrong? We left the next day so I have no idea of the outcome. Could the ship get home with one cylinder completely out of action?

Bob H
Is your story feasible?
With Bank Line anything is feasible.
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Old 7th September 2020, 09:39
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Crossed the Pacific from China to Panama once on the Maersk Commander with one cylinder out of action. This was a B & W engine and the rocker arm bearing had gone. I think the cylinder had some kind of release valve opened at the top as it made a wheezing noise on each rev. They airfreighted spares out to Panama to get it fixed.
It's memorable because we proceeded slowly and ran out of beer on the crossing. It's hard to imagine anything more horrible.
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Old 7th September 2020, 10:54
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There is (was) at least one single cylinder Doxford (admittedly a demonstrator). It would not have been much use with one cylinder hung up.

'Hanging up' a unit on an engine is not that unusual and I did a short trip from Lisbon to Las Palmas with one unit of a 6 (?) cylinder GMT out of action.

I also saw photographs of an amazing crankshaft 'repair' made on a livestock carrier (or she was the). The webs either side of the broken pin were wrapped in a fashioned steel plate and she did at least one trip before the Australian authorities banned her Obviously the unit in way of the break was 'hung up'.
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Last edited by Varley; 7th September 2020 at 10:59.
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Old 7th September 2020, 14:51
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I flew to the Solomons to bring a trawler style vessel back to Cairns. We stopped briefly at Samarai (I think) because of engine trouble. While there I got to talking to an engineer off, probably, a Banks Line ship. As I recall it he told me they were trying to get a cylinder liner out and it was stuck. They had a crane pulling it up and a couple of jacks pushing. Is this a feasable story or have I got it all wrong? We left the next day so I have no idea of the outcome. Could the ship get home with one cylinder completely out of action?

Bob H
Hi Bob,

Yes, the story is correct.

The "jacks" are threaded bars and pull a "strong back" to free the cylinder liner. The liner itself is sealed with the engine block with "O" rings. These, very often twist as the liner moves up and jam the liner's movement. The crane should only be used to exert a very small upward force on the liner: It is definitely a "no-no" to try and use it to pull the liner out! If this is done, the liner can shoot up and then bounce, with the danger of damaging machined surfaces or the liner - It can also damage irreparably the crane which is a vital equipment in the engine room.

As Varley has said, it is possible to "dead leg" a damage cylinder, and run the engine at reduced revs/power until a safe port is reached to conduct the required repairs.

On an older vessel that I was on, we only had two generators and they required a lot of maintenance and TLC. The injectors were particularly bad and, as the ship was being sold, the company did not want to invest in new spares. When checking each engines individual cylinder power balance (as a result of the rubbish injectors), if there was excess smoke, we would cut fuel during running to each cylinder in turn until the smoke diminished - that was the leaky injector! Crude, but effective.

Welcome aboard, by the way!

Rgds.
Dave
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Old 7th September 2020, 15:01
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That sounds like the competitors description of a Marconi transmitter only in reverse. "Tune for maximum smoke".
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Lord Finchley tried to mend the electric light
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Old 7th September 2020, 15:15
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That sounds like the competitors description of a Marconi transmitter only in reverse. "Tune for maximum smoke".
That good, huh!
Cheers,
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Old 7th September 2020, 15:24
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Only if you listen to the competition! Rather like a Sharple's man sniping at Alfa Laval.
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David V
Lord Finchley tried to mend the electric light
Himself. It stuck him dead and serve him right
It is the duty of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan
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Old 7th September 2020, 21:50
Yachtsman Australia Yachtsman is offline
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Thanks one and all.

Bob H
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Old 7th September 2020, 22:39
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Just remembered a couple of phrases - "Crack the liner seal" (with the strongback) and then "inch the liner out" (with the crane), CAREFUL where you put your fingers!

Rgds.
Dave
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Old 7th September 2020, 23:36
randcmackenzie Scotland randcmackenzie is offline
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Originally Posted by Varley View Post
There is (was) at least one single cylinder Doxford (admittedly a demonstrator). It would not have been much use with one cylinder hung up.

'Hanging up' a unit on an engine is not that unusual and I did a short trip from Lisbon to Las Palmas with one unit of a 6 (?) cylinder GMT out of action.

I also saw photographs of an amazing crankshaft 'repair' made on a livestock carrier (or she was the). The webs either side of the broken pin were wrapped in a fashioned steel plate and she did at least one trip before the Australian authorities banned her Obviously the unit in way of the break was 'hung up'.
I think your GMT was a 10 legger Dave, was she not a sister to Blue Fin and Yellow Fin? And all the sisters were ugly.

Roddie.
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Old 8th September 2020, 01:11
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Roddie. She might well have been. I tried to extrapolate from MCR (29 MW) to unit contribution as I do not remember the legs.

Except for the one that cracked. Normally a crack is announced relatively discretely (differential pressure across the jacket water cooling (a la Gotaverkens), gassing where gassing should not happen, water in the Cc oil, etc.

Not with this Grande Motori. There was a loud and then repeated 'BLAT' accompanied by a sheet of flame a metre in length lancing across the top plates. Dante could have inspected the inside of the pot through the gap, illuminated every time it fired. Fabulous. Ugly? but you have a sense of humour! But fabulous anyway. (I think we had two Ex DSM GMTs on the Eilat run with Stonehaven, Ex Warwick Fort & Fort St Catherine?).

I did some computerising of PM for the Fins but never saw one. Tom Isbister was OM for the ride I hitched (or rather the one Atul Puri hitched for me) on Burmpac Bahamas.
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David V
Lord Finchley tried to mend the electric light
Himself. It stuck him dead and serve him right
It is the duty of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan
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Old 8th September 2020, 07:05
Engine Serang Northern Ireland Engine Serang is offline
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As a ship management company were Denholms fussy when considering taking a ship into management or did they take anything offered in the knowledge that superintendents and ships staff would give themselves hernia's, jock-rot, strokes and heart attacks to keep the ships trading?
I'm beginning to think the latter. Please educate me.
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Old 8th September 2020, 13:08
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(I fear the time for attending the pedagogue is over for both of us, E-S. The young may sponge up learning, my sponge is now applied to the bottle).

It rather depends on the era. In the early days Sir John and Sir William would interview clients to see if they were up to scratch before accepting their vessels into management. Later perhaps we were not that fussy.

In my day it was clearer that the state of the ship depended on the owner and we would take on 'difficult cases' but rarely hopeless ones. If the agreed budget did not arrive then step one was to stop all but safety expenditure and one or two did fall by the wayside (Alpha Crusader for one). That said I remember only one client who was sacked and that was NITC. TDU, not a believer in the panacea of alcohol, made sure everyone had a glass of fizz to celebrate their departure.

One of the most interesting services we tried to provide was in the repossession of vessels where the owners had fallen foul of their mortgagees (as well, presumably, as their managers).

We did a pretty good job of holding onto the CAST OBOs when they went bust (John, let us not argue over the duck mannerisms) principally in tandem with Fairwind the brains behind the repossession business. Fairwind would run the good prospects commercially after their arrest/judicial sale until they could be sold on favourably. We were not then the exclusive choice of managers for Fairwind but that is the first I recollect of this liaison. It is one that continued until Mr. Fairhurst joined Denholm.

A 'phone call from him always meant fun.

I never thought the term Glasgow Greek was the derogatory one our detractors meant it to be. Being able to run the bangers is a corporate talent that not all possess. It is also far more fun. Any fool can watch a computer run his new ship.
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David V
Lord Finchley tried to mend the electric light
Himself. It stuck him dead and serve him right
It is the duty of the wealthy man
To give employment to the artisan

Last edited by Varley; 9th September 2020 at 09:23.
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Old 8th September 2020, 14:15
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.....Normally a crack is announced relatively discretely (differential pressure across the jacket water cooling (a la Gotaverkens), gassing where gassing should not happen, water in the Cc oil, etc.....
We had one, but definitely not discretely. On a 12RSAD76 Sulzer after a long passage and having been stopped for a while to pick up the pilot, on attempting to start, No.11 cylinder flame ring, which had apparently broken, fell on top of the piston on the down stroke and the jammed in the ports on the up stroke. Being a 12 cylinder there were lots of cylinders getting starting air and resulting force split the liner from top to bottom and very rapidly filled the cylinder with water and hydrauliced the unit - nearly blowing the head off.
Funny that immediately after this incident it was decided that flame rings weren't necessary any more.
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Old 8th September 2020, 17:22
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Flame rings, B&W "composite" valves, etc...........Kept us busy though!
Rgds.
Dave
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Old 9th September 2020, 00:28
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We had one, but definitely not discretely. On a 12RSAD76 Sulzer after a long passage and having been stopped for a while to pick up the pilot, on attempting to start, No.11 cylinder flame ring, which had apparently broken, fell on top of the piston on the down stroke and the jammed in the ports on the up stroke. Being a 12 cylinder there were lots of cylinders getting starting air and resulting force split the liner from top to bottom and very rapidly filled the cylinder with water and hydrauliced the unit - nearly blowing the head off.
Funny that immediately after this incident it was decided that flame rings weren't necessary any more.
Tim City of Melbourne [ Cape Town ] per chance??

Alan
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Old 9th September 2020, 09:00
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Tim City of Melbourne [ Cape Town ] per chance??

Alan
Yep ! The one and only. Was immediately after that incident that we found a fracture in a keyway in the camshaft. Because a replacement was on something like a 9 month delivery we did a workaround by turning the camshaft round and cutting a new keyway. I do remember the the Lloyds surveyor in Hull was very concerned about it and watched the subsequent engine trial from the boat deck! I think that fix may have lasted the lifetime of the ship ?!
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