Glenlyon Class to Liverpool Bay Class.

[Farmer John]

1962, Glenlyon Class came into service, 191 days a year at sea.
Priam Class increased that to 216 days at sea.
1972, Liverpool Bay Class, 300 days a year at sea, carrying 6 to 7 times the cargo of the Priams.

Marshall Meek "There go the ships"

Progress was so fast, it had to be disruptive and destructive.

[Makko]

FJ, I would add to that the last ships, the M´s and RoRo's. The latter especially, the mix of cargos, much of it enclosed inside the vessel, was also leaps and bounds over the old "state of the art" (Dolius, Menestheus etc A6 vessels) which had come into service less than twenty years before. Two months around the world and nearly two loading on the US coast, mainly Gulf of Mexico and Eastern seaboard.


On the RoRo's, standard cargoes were yachts and powerboats from Taiwan to LA, construction equipment and huge tyres, USA to Middle East, containers everywhere. We also took a helicopter from HK to LA. It landed alongside, had the rotors folded and I towed it onboard with the Jeep that we carried. In LA, I towed it off, the rotor blades unfolded and it took off! We could take virtually anything that could be carried by trucks to anywhere.


In my mind, they were the most flexible and possibly profitable vessels ever operated by BF. Then came 86 and, !POOF!, all gone, no more.
Rgds.
Dave

[Farmer John]

What was that song Bob Dylan sang? Something about time.

[Makko]

Yeah, "...the times they are a changin....."
Good memories though.

[Tomvart]

Makko & FJ, my late uncle Bob and his son (Rob) were both engineers for Blue Flu.....the former was Ch/eng and the latter 2nd Eng (served in Priam I think).
Now - me being of the grey funnel pursuasion - the significance of 1986 is lost on me.....was this the demise of the company or the meteoric rise of the container ship..rendering conventional cargo ships obsolete? My cousins slant of why Blue Flu went under was that they got into Tankers in the 70's (and away from core business) in the trying times of early containerisation and lost lots of Money in the process.

[Engine Serang]

I never knew BF were into tankers.

[Makko]

Tom and ES,


The core business of BF was always general cargo. The main services were Europe/Far East, Europe/Australia and the old East Asiatic service with Wilhelmsen (Blue Sea) circumnavigating, always east and never returning to UK (the service I was on).


In the early seventies, the then Ocean group expanded, acquiring 2(?) tankers (Tantalus) and small bulkers (Ajax, Anchises etc.). This came about from the complete integration of Wm. Cory operations. Incidentally, this was the origin of the RFA Plumleaf which was never under BF management and the TEU repair service in Liverpool and the "Montag"(?, memory) tyre retreading business. The bulker/tanker venture was not a success and the vessels were quickly sold on. One vessel (I cannot remember the name) was converted into a car carrier under Kawasaki colours. This vessel was known as the company "prison ship" for ne'er do goods!


Not learning from this exercise, some bright spark decided to get into liquified natural gas carriage. Nestor and Gastor were built in France for a proposed service from Indonesia to Los Angeles. The terminal in USA was never built. Both ships went from the yard to Isle of Grain for test cargoes (load/unload) and then straight to lay up in Loch Striven. The original project price for the ships was 13M, they ended up costing 81M!! They never carried a paying cargo and were eventually sold to Nigeria. I was on Nestor in 1981 for reactivation to go to the shipyard in St. Nazaire for required work (some plate work plus guarantee). In service, they were designed to use 10% FO and 90% cargo boil off. However, with no cargo and being steam turbine vessels, the cost of operation was phenomenal.


The BF fleet at its high point numbered 122 vessels. In my time, in the 80's, there were 23 vessels. In fact, I only did two months on my first ship, a Super P, Phrontis, as, after delivering a cracking tower to Labuan, we were sent to Singapore Roads for sale. From here on in, your employment card was marked. Ships were sold or chartered out, ports of registry changed to Panama, Liberia and IoM. As one second remarked to me, one ship sold is equivalent to two crews out of work.


Incidentally, the Bay class re-engining was not very successful and the vessels were very soon outdated by capacity. The M class, while fully TEU capable, were fitted with derricks which were not suitable to efficient cargo operations. The only ships, in my opinion, which could have continued and remained profitable if all other ventures were "amputated" were the RoRo's, but it was too little, too late, and at high management level there was no stomach for shipping. The bean counters ruled!


My own lay off was rather cold and impersonal - "Come into the office" - Here is a letter, we are granting you X pounds severance. When I asked if the company could give me tips or recommendations to find at such short notice continued employment, it was just a shrug of the shoulders and clear that you were out on your ear and had to fend for yourself.


In 86, the company sold off all of the remaining vessels (BF and EDs) and became Excel Logisitics, dedicated solely to road transport solutions. The shipping company and sea staff was no more.


On a positive note, my short time with BF gave me a first class engineering education and solid sea going experience with truly fine, capable and upstanding company: There was always "the wrong way, the right way and the Blue Funnel way"!!! Something all BFers are rightfully proud of (not to be confused with the ongoing myth that we were "aloof" or thought of ourselves as being above others! We were just competent and well trained).


Rgds.
Dave

[Tomvart]

Makko, many thanks for that detailed explanation, looks like my cousin Rob wasn't far off the mark, the management seem to have lost their way when they started dabbling in markets where they had no real experience! I have to say that your employment termination was somewhat substandard!

I always find it exceedingly sad when I see Liverpool and Birkenhead docks today, and then compare it to what I remember in the late 60's and early 70's - when visiting my Uncle Bobs ships...many BF ships alongside, all looking elegant and smart with towering blue funnels. Things of beauty unlike the boxlike monstrosities of today!

We often ate onboard with Uncle Bob during these visits (normally before he sailed) and I recall the food was largely very good and served by immaculate Chinese stewards (and had been made by Chinese chefs). It left a huge impression upon me as a young boy. I still have many fond and happy memories of these days. My Aunts husband James Lamb, was also a Ch/Eng with the Palm, Stag and Bank Lines, who's ships I also had the pleasure of visiting, they always seem to have been somewhat 'agricultural' in comparison to my BF visits!
.
Had I of been unsuccessful in my application to join the RN, Blu flu was my second choice, sounds like I was lucky that I got into the RN - as I would only have have 8 years employment before the company folded!

[Farmer John]

I worked for a company for 20 years, my final communication was a compliments slip with a finishing date written on it.

There is a photo in Meek's book of the interior of one the tankers, I will add it in tomorrow if I get the chance. It is a book I have enjoyed reading a couple of times.

[Makko]

S C (member of the "other site", a contemporary of mine) resigned as ChEng after 25 years with P&O (He was an Eng Cadet with BF). He told me he received a very bland "thanks and good luck" reply!!! The way of the world, suck it in and move on to better things.


Tom, BF were prodigious feeders! Even as lowly Cadets at Iliad House, we had shipboard menus from the daily recipe/menu book. Breakfast, for example, always included fruit, yoghurt, milk, porridge, toast & jam, cereal, bacon, eggs, tomatoes, sausages, kippers etc. etc.! But we were growing lads and the job was very physical. I used to partake of everything, and even then seconds.


Rgds.
Dave

[Dave McGouldrick]

'But we were growing lads and the job was very physical. I used to partake of everything, and even then seconds.'


The whole shipping industry has changed over the years, but there is one constant: Cadets will eat their way through whatever menu there is (and any extras). It was still good to see even on my last 'helping out' a couple of years ago.

[Makko]

I think that the physical demands on the Engineer officers is overlooked. Maybe we just took it for granted! Starting off with the engine room temperature, many times 50 to 52oC. Even the most mundane of watch activity required an awful lot of effort, trudging around in a sopping wet boiler suit, pouring the sweat out of your boots and wringing out your socks after looking after a HFO separator. Making sure that the sweat didn't drip onto the log sheet, just where you were going to write! And then the maintenance, a change of ME injectors in Japan, 9 x 92 Kg., one set shipped off to MHI, one set into the engine and another to the stores. Rigging chain blocks, unseizing stuff, torquing down big ends, taking leads, grinding in genny and compressor valves, etc. etc.! But what about the satisfaction of a job truly well done. And it was the same for everyone, so no one talks about it. Just the job,"Hard working ship!, or "sweet job".

The other week, my garage door jammed and two outer hinges split. Even with a gammy leg (inner left meniscus), I didn't think twice about getting the welding set out and making good, lifting the door with one hand and taking off/fitting the hinge with the other. The only thing is, at nearly 57, I was knacked and everything seemed to take forever! "In the old days" it would have taken less than half the time! But, job well done! Give oneself a pat on the back!

Rgds.
Dave

[Dave McGouldrick]

Hey Makko
You seem to be at the age when you notice that everything has been made heavier by the manufacturers.

Personally I've realised that the cwt bags of cement now weigh at least 20% more than that.
The young lad says it's just me, but I know better......

[BobClay]

It's that gravity has increased due to inflation.

[BillH]

Originally Posted by Makko

Tom and ES,

One vessel (I cannot remember the name) was converted into a car carrier under Kawasaki colours. This vessel was known as the company "prison ship" for ne'er do goods!

Rgds.
Dave

The following extracted from my Digital book on CD - The Blue Funnel Odyssey. 2007

An opportunity arose to acquire two Panamax size bulk carriers when an unspecified Danish owner cancelled two contracts at the Burmeister & Wain yard in Denmark. The shipbuilder had offered them for resale as they had already commenced building. Both contracts were acquired and completed for two Ocean Group subsidiaries as HECTOR and HELENUS. The engine rooms were unusual inasmuch the signs etc were in Danish and supplemented by English equivalent translations. One engineer who served aboard HELENUS has spoken of the “Pigeon” language introduced by the engine room staff using a mix of both languages but which became fully understood within the engine room but was alien to the remainder of the crew.

Purpose-built car carriers are usually provided with an array of propulsion units to assist with their manoeuvring in port due to their high slab-sides. When bulk-carriers are converted they usually retain whatever propulsion they had without any expensive additions such as bow thrusters etc.
This fact was to become all too apparent on the night of 29th March 1980, when HELENUS was in the River Medway. Having discharged, she was making ready for sea but her master decided to delay his departure due to excessively high winds, gusting to force 9-10. Such was the ferocity of the wind that the vessel was ripped from her berth at Sheerness before additional shore lines could be put in place. With only one rope holding on to her stern a local tug attempted to hold her against the berth and put a rope ashore but before that was achieved the remaining stern rope parted leaving the vessel adrift without her Pilot aboard. She drifted onto Elder and Fyffes reefer MONTAGUA (6,082g./70) snapping her moorings and setting her adrift. She in turn under pressure from the drifting HELENUS hit the Moroccan reefer IMILCHIL (7,563g. /76) on the next berth and all three vessels were then adrift giving the port authorities, crews, and tug crews a monumental headache. The Master of HELENUS let both anchors go in an attempt to check his drift whilst all available tugs set about getting the vessels alongside and re-secured. Having been set adrift the Master of HELENUS decided that as soon as a pilot was put aboard he would be able to be turned about by the tugs that had secured to him to hold her whilst her anchors were recovered, and depart for Rotterdam which he did at 03:30hrs., leaving behind two damaged ships, not to mention the dockside cranes.



HELENUS (3rd of name in fleet) (1973 - 1983) Panamax type bulk carrier.
O.N. 360123. 30,038g. 22,384n. 718' 0" x 100' 2" x 39' 7"
Post 1988: 25,728g. 19,907n.
7-cyl. 2 S.C.S. A. (740 x 1600mm) B&W 7K74EF type by A/S B&W Motor-og-Machinefabrik af 1971, Copenhagen. 13,100 BHP. 15 kts.
17.12.1972: Launched by A/S Burmeister & Wain’s Skibsbyggeri, Copenhagen (Yard No. 847), for the Ocean Steamship Company Ltd.
15.1.1973: Owners restyled as Ocean Transport & Trading Ltd.
15.3.1973: Registered at Liverpool.
1973: Completed for Rea Ltd., (Ocean Titan Ltd., managers).
31.12.1976: Owner restyled as Ocean Helenus Ltd., (same managers).
1978: Converted into a car carrier.
1983: Sold to Eurocolor Shipping Ltd., Cyprus, and renamed SEAFARER.
1988: Reverted to a bulk carrier.
1997: Sold to Sommersby Shipping Ltd., Malta, and renamed SEAFARER I. (O.N. 5784).
21.5.1998: Whilst outward bound from Algerciras Anchorage, with a cargo of Bauxite, sustained hull damage in the area of No.6 hold and a list when she collided with FEDRA (22,094g./77) which sustained bow damage.
3.8.2000: Arrived at Alang for demolition.

[Engine Serang]

Originally Posted by Makko

Tom and ES,

On a positive note, my short time with BF gave me a first class engineering education and solid sea going experience with truly fine, capable and upstanding company: There was always "the wrong way, the right way and the Blue Funnel way"!!! Something all BFers are rightfully proud of (not to be confused with the ongoing myth that we were "aloof" or thought of ourselves as being above others! We were just competent and well trained).


Rgds.
Dave

Thanks Dave.
I wish I could say that about some of my employers.

[Makko]

Helenus was the "prison ship" for the bad boys!

One 4/E who I sailed with told me a tale..........

There was an alarm that the HFO purifier had tripped. He duly went to the purifier room and, almost immediately, ran back to the MCR:

4/E, to C/E from MCR," Chief, I have a problem with the purifier."
C/E to 4/E, still wiping the sleep from his eyes,"Flock! Just get it fixed!"
then, sleep gone,
C/E to 4/E,"......what precisely is the problem?"
4/E to C/E,"It's gone, Chief!
C/E to 4/E,"Gone? Burned out motor? What, man?"
4/E to C/E," No Chief. There is a flocking great hole in the ship's side! The shaft broke and the bowl went over the wall!"

Apparently, the C/E thought he was still dreaming, and went down to the pit. Apparently, his face was a picture when he went into the purifier room and could see the sea clearly and very, very close from the new "window"!

Rgds.
Dave

[Tim Gibbs]

Dave had said "On a positive note, my short time with BF gave me a first class engineering education and solid sea going experience with truly fine, capable and upstanding company: There was always "the wrong way, the right way and the Blue Funnel way"!!! Something all BFers are rightfully proud of (not to be confused with the ongoing myth that we were "aloof" or thought of ourselves as being above others! We were just competent and well trained)."

And that seemed so true as I saw them at a distance during my time at sea. However, later, around the late '70s, we were involved with building a second generation container ship in Germany and BF/ OT&T ordered an identical vessel from the the same yard.
We had a fantastic relationship with yard but there was constant bad blood between BF/ OT&T and the yard which resulting in the Project Manager saying to us one day, "We're going to give you the very best vessel we can but the others will get only the vessel they specified" And so it proved.
Over the years building many ships I believed that a ship building contract is a bit like a joint venture; the owner had the commercial vision and the cash and the shipyard had the technical ability to produce what the owner needed. There had to be respect and give and take from both parties to produce a good result . Some owners however, seemed to delight in conflict and trying to screw the yard at ever turn. I believed that once the contact was signed it should be put away and if it had to be taken out before delivery I considered it a failure . It only happened to me once in 15 newbuildings.

[Makko]

Tim,

I sailed with a Mate, trying to remember his name, but I won't mention it, known as "Bottle Lock". A bit of a p rat, always had to tell people that he was RNR. He got his nickname probably on the newbuild that you mention - I later learned that he couldn't believe that all the locations cut in the deck for bottle locks were in the right place and spent his days measuring each and every one and distance between. Apparently, yard staff gave him a wide berth and let him get on with his measuring and reporting, paying no attention to him.

Apart from his RNR status, he was a bit of a bore, always going on about how he should have been made up to "Mar-ster" already. If I remember correctly, he was only on for the US coasting (around 2 months circumnavigation eastwards (1 crew), 1.5 months US coasting (2 crew)). He spent most of his time sunbathing on the monkey island and was a bar steward with the Nav cadets, reducing one to tears once. That was the straw that broke the camel's back and "senior" shipboard management had some very choice words with him, which took him down several pegs. He was then even more of a bore, sullen and morose, sitting alone in the bar reading and muttering. In the end, he got relieved early. Later scuttlebutt said he had been made redundant on return to the UK. I never heard of him again, though.

There was a peculiarity with BF which affected your attitude to the job. The ships were "self insured". The Master had the unenviable responsibility for "you break it, you pay for it"! This decision came from Alfred Holt himself, I believe, who apparently decided on the no-insurance route, claiming to have the best ships (Holt's Class) and the best officers to man them. Mistakes were not tolerated - I remember one Master who, shall we say, had constant diorrhea! On taking on his first trip in command. He had no experience on the RoRo's.On the same circumnavigation, we lost not only a 25T forklift in the drink (Yokohama) but also got arrested in NOLA for an incident in the Red Sea between a Bay boat and a bulker and lost the "Yoke" (spreader) to the drink in Miami. We ran on a very tight schedule, day and hour arrival and this was another aspect that didn't do his bowels any good! We rallied around him because he was a very good bloke and made sure that our reports put him in the very best light, poor sod! I know that he went on with the company until the end.

It is nice, finally, to have a measured response to the BF "myth", not the usual round of critique, and to be able to put out some points which were part of the culture and may have been misinterpreted by some outside the company! And no "other" company was safe, for one, the P&O myth with uniforms and swords!

Best Regards,
Dave

[Saudisid]

Originally Posted by Tim Gibbs

Dave had said "On a positive note, my short time with BF gave me a first class engineering education and solid sea going experience with truly fine, capable and upstanding company: There was always "the wrong way, the right way and the Blue Funnel way"!!! Something all BFers are rightfully proud of (not to be confused with the ongoing myth that we were "aloof" or thought of ourselves as being above others! We were just competent and well trained)."

And that seemed so true as I saw them at a distance during my time at sea. However, later, around the late '70s, we were involved with building a second generation container ship in Germany and BF/ OT&T ordered an identical vessel from the the same yard.
We had a fantastic relationship with yard but there was constant bad blood between BF/ OT&T and the yard which resulting in the Project Manager saying to us one day, "We're going to give you the very best vessel we can but the others will get only the vessel they specified" And so it proved.
Over the years building many ships I believed that a ship building contract is a bit like a joint venture; the owner had the commercial vision and the cash and the shipyard had the technical ability to produce what the owner needed. There had to be respect and give and take from both parties to produce a good result . Some owners however, seemed to delight in conflict and trying to screw the yard at ever turn. I believed that once the contact was signed it should be put away and if it had to be taken out before delivery I considered it a failure . It only happened to me once in 15 newbuildings.

Would that be the City of Durban Tim

Alan

[Tim Gibbs]

Originally Posted by Saudisid

Would that be the City of Durban Tim

Alan

Hole in one Alan
Perhaps we could use this as basis for a quiz?!

[normanbeebee]

Having, like many become disillusioned with SN when they changed format last year, I have only recently explored the innermost sanctums of this site. Thank you Dave et al with insights into "Alfies" latter history. I will keep watch.