Albion and Bulwark scrapped?

[NickNZ]

So Labour are scrapping HMS Albion and Bulwark, without replacement?
I read this in the UK Defence Journal, it isn’t April Fools Day, are they serious?
Somebody seems to think that The Bay Class can do the job? But they are RFAs, which has insufficient labour as it stands.
Am I dreaming ? Because I have not heard any comments.
Whoever voted the current into ‘power’, should surely hang their heads in shame.
Boy am glad I no longer live in the UK.

[Tomvart]

I'm starting to think along the same lines as you Nick, plenty of empty Labour promises pre-election, a manifesto that was a clear lie, and what little is left of our Navy yet further diminished.

2 RFA Tankers
2 LPD
1 Frigate

All for the chop prior to the SDSR.

With the LPDs to go - my question is are the Marines next?

I am guessing that by announcing the early removal of an armed amphibious delivery capability, are these penny pinching muppets paving the way for an SDSR decision early next year to get rid of the RM commandos?

[rustytrawler]

Well said Nick and Tom, I think all the political parties are made out of the same stuff, "WOOD"

[Malcolm G]

Regarding the discrepancy between manifesto and actual events,
You might wish to have a look at this:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143
It wont have any effect but it might tend to focus the minds of those currently in power.

[Tomvart]

Originally Posted by Malcolm G

Regarding the discrepancy between manifesto and actual events,
You might wish to have a look at this:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143
It wont have any effect but it might tend to focus the minds of those currently in power.

For what its worth Malcolm, I have e-signed the petition, despite this petition now meeting the threshold for debate in parliament, I doubt very much if it will go any further than a short fruitless debate in the house.

[Dartskipper]

The debate will probably be held on a Friday afternoon when all the MP's have gone home.

[Biggles Wader]

As I understand it the drones are obsolete and the helicopters due for replacement fairly soon, the frigate is beyond economic repair and the assault ships have been semi laid up for a while already. Perhaps this announcement is more a case of confirming what has already happened rather than a policy for the future. One thing that I noticed is that it also says there will be no reductions in personnel as a result. Again I suspect this is actually a realisation that we just can't recruit and retain enough people in the military, especially the Navy, and we will have to deal with that as best we can.

[NickNZ]

Originally Posted by Biggles Wader

As I understand it the drones are obsolete and the helicopters due for replacement fairly soon, the frigate is beyond economic repair and the assault ships have been semi laid up for a while already. Perhaps this announcement is more a case of confirming what has already happened rather than a policy for the future. One thing that I noticed is that it also says there will be no reductions in personnel as a result. Again I suspect this is actually a realisation that we just can't recruit and retain enough people in the military, especially the Navy, and we will have to deal with that as best we can.

I was in Plymouth for over 2 years recently (I left in February) in that period, I drove past Bulwark almost daily and watched her being refitted. On Albion’s return from her last deployment, I saw fixtures and fittings being removed and transferred over to Bulwark for fitting. The previous government advised that Bulwark would take over from Albion, that Albion would get laid up in anticipation of an imminent order for replacement. And don’t think the Bay Class will replace the LPDs, they are RFAs, not RN, and everyone knows that the RFA in general do not have enough people to run their ships as it is, because their poor pay is sending them to join merchant navies that offer more money. Look on Google Earth at Portland and Falmouth to see all the RFAs in lay up.
You mention, no reductions in personnel? Sailors and marines are leaving because of the lack of equipment, poor pay, and overwork. And where are these sailors going? Australian and New Zealand navies, where there is better pay, promotions, and a better way of life and FUTURE for them and their families. Avery similar scenario to what NHS Doctors and nurses is taking place as well.
The government won’t make reductions because, they need every single person already in service. But neither can they stop them.
Someone needs to ask Starmer what his policy for protecting the UK is.

[Malcolm G]

Originally Posted by Dartskipper

The debate will probably be held on a Friday afternoon when all the MP's have gone home.

Monday 6th January

[NickNZ]

Originally Posted by Malcolm G

Monday 6th January

Interesting that the Australians have just ordered 6 (yes 6) LSTs of equal ability to Albion Class.

[Malcolm G]

Do the Aussies know something?

[Dartskipper]

Originally Posted by Malcolm G

Do the Aussies know something?

It's not difficult to know more about anything than our present government knows.

[YM-Mundrabilla]

I would doubt that we know anything.

Our politicians don't know anything about anything other than the location of the nearest trough, of course, so why would we?

There are those that don't know and those who don't know that they don't know. The latter are far more dangerous.

[Jupiter71]

Originally Posted by rustytrawler

Well said Nick and Tom, I think all the political parties are made out of the same stuff, "WOOD"

I can think of something other than wood, my suggestion like the present government totally stinks

[littoralcombat]

Originally Posted by NickNZ

Interesting that the Australians have just ordered 6 (yes 6) LSTs of equal ability to Albion Class.

The proposed LST's for the RAN (eight is the figure intended) have not yet been formally ordered Nick. We have just reached the stage where the Government has stated the preferred Designer, that being Damen.
As to them being equal in ability to an RN Albion Class LPD, they will have nowhere near that capability. They are closer to being an LSL of the long gone RFA 'Sir' Class, or less. They are actually touted as being an LCH ( Landing Craft Heavy).
For a start, they will be 100 metres long (25 metres shorter that Ships sich as RFA Sir Percivale and her Sisters. Albion and Bulwark are 176 metres in length).
Their flight deck will only be able to handle one medium sized Helicopter, no heavy lift. They have no floodable stern dock and associated heavy landing craft. They will, however, be able to load/unload a MBT via the bow ramp (70t), something I believe the old LSL's couldn't, only via the stern ramp.
Their small size provides little in the way of Command and Control facilities, unlike the Albions which have all that and more.
Whilst they will be a welcome addition to the ADF, our Government has in my opinion, failed in selecting the 100 metre version. Damen offer a 120 metre option which would have provided a substantial increase in space for vehicles/cargo, embarked troop numbers, tankage for additional fuel/range and dry stores for food etc. All essential for extending mission sustainment.
The required hull 'plug' is relatively simplistic in construction and the resulting extra capability would have come at a very modest increase in price overall.
Remember that "Steel is cheap and the air it surrounds is free".
Nige